LISTENERS ASKED AND SPL ANSWERED: WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO BUILD A PROLIFIC, COLLEGE SPORTS PROGRAM
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Hey everybody, and welcome to another episode of sports prep live. Sports prep live, where we unbox the bike and talk excellent in athletics.
Unknown Speaker 0:35
Welcome back to sports prep live, everybody. I am your host. Great and Prescott got my man. KB, here today. Now recently, I was asked a very, very, very interesting question, okay, and it's been on my mind, and I wanted to talk to you about it, so we're going to spend a lot of time on this today. So a listener recently asked me, What does it take to build a prolific college sports program, not just a team in one sport, but a program,
Unknown Speaker 1:06
right? Interesting question,
Unknown Speaker 1:08
and I've spent a lot of time thinking about this, and obviously we were broadcast here at UNLV, yes, so we're going to talk. With respect to UNLV, I have some questions. I've spent a lot of time thinking about what it might take, what goes into it, history, resources, and all of that, and I wanted to get your opinion on that. So I'm going to ask you, what do you think it takes to build a prolific college sports Wow,
Unknown Speaker 1:39
that is a great listener question. And I think, you know, there's a lot of examples out there in different verticals, right, whether it's men's basketball and those perennial names that are up there, Duke Gonzaga, Kansas, Kentucky, year in and you out, year out, North Carolina as of late, the Baylor's, Texas. Those are schools that are always on that list. You see the ESPN top 25 right? Those are names that you can expect to be on there. And then you take a look at football. And the same thing those alabamas, the Georgia, the Texas, the Ohio State, USC, Michigan. These are names that are not surprising to people, right when you mentioned top tier collegiate football programs, right? And even now, over the last, say, five years, that the women's game in basketball has gotten a lot of attention. Historically, UConn has always been there. Texas has been a name. You know that that has historically been a titan in the women's basketball program. Tennessee was Tennessee, of course. And now you know, you've got the LSU and you've got UConn is still there, of course, Iowa over the last several years, although they're probably going to fall off South Carolina. South Carolina, absolutely USC. USC is a power program, so Baylor on the women's side as well, city, state, yes. So there are those programs that are just always there, right? And so that is a really good question, kind of what goes in to making because I don't know that people would say that UNLV in those respective sports is a powerhouse year after year, right? They're not ranked year after year. And so, you know, the listener asked this question, why not? What are they missing that some of these other schools have, or what are they not doing that some of these other schools are doing? And I think one the biggest thing is resources. These programs pour a ton of resources into their successful collegiate sports programs, independent of whether it's male or female, even independent of whether which sport it is, if it's a sport that is up there year after year, top 25, top 10, you can best believe that they are Pouring a lot of resources into the program. Another thing that I see that that happens across the programs that are successful is a person of note, and that may be what the coach has accomplished in the sport as a coach, or it could be what that coach brings to the table, right? So, for example, in football, a person who has accomplished a lot in the sport, right? Would be a Nick Saban right from Alabama, okay, yeah, yeah, he's accomplished a lot in the sport. And then a person who brings a lot to the table would be someone like a Deion Sanders, yeah, right? And. You can't tell me, even though they lost some kids last year, because they had a year that was a little bit underwhelming, you can't tell me that a name like that, what he's accomplished actually in two sports, right? This guy has been in a Super Bowl and a World Series.
Unknown Speaker 5:15
He's a two time Super Bowl champ. Yes, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 5:17
So you it's hard to say that that name, if a kid is being recruited and that man is on the other end of the line, or he shows up in your living room, or he asks you to come and visit his campus, even if you're not thinking about, you know, Colorado, as one of your top schools, you're probably going to take that visit. So the question becomes, a lot of these schools have that, Mike shefsky, right, like a lot of these schools, Bill Self, coach, Dean out of North Carolina, like Dean Smith, so all
Unknown Speaker 5:54
except Bill Self, those, sure, Chef ski and Dean Smith are iconic. Yeah, those
Unknown Speaker 5:59
are big. They're no longer coaching, but those were really, really big names, Bill Self. BILL SELF, he's not in that category, but he's he's a great coach. He's a really good coach, absolutely so. And I think he's accomplished a lot just in terms of the win record in the sport. He's a guy that, if you get called by Coach Self, you're gonna return the call. Of course, if he asked you to come in for a visit. You're probably going to take the visit right, Kansas, and no joke, and, and even Hurley, now, right, like, so there's, there's someone who accomplished something in the sport, right, right at UConn, DAN HURLEY, right? So there are those names that can bring a lot to the table, those personalities that can bring a lot to the table and then the resources. And so I think what that listener was asking is, does UNLV have that in its respected collegiate sports program? And if I'm keeping it a buck, the answer has to be not yet. No, right, not yet. And they've accomplished some really big feats independent of having all of those resources. And when I say resources, ladies and gentlemen, I'm thinking about like there's not a big nil program here, right? We just had a fiasco because there wasn't a lot of resources in the n i l pool and lost a player who got kind of, there was a misunderstanding, you know, we're not going to go into it we've covered in past episodes. But that was all because there weren't the resources there in the n i L, he was promised something, he didn't get it. If they were there, right? It would have been a no brainer, right? Cut The Check and boom, it's over. So the question does become, does UNLV, at present, pour those sorts of resources into their collegiate program? I looked at this is an interesting gray I looked at over the last several years, the schools and programs that are on top 25 lists going back like five years, right? That have broken into the top 25 list in rankings. And UNLV has shown up here and there. Football, obviously this year, but before this year, you know, we probably couldn't remember. Basketball, you know, they might have jumped in, you know, early on last year to a top 23 or something like that, and then fallen off the list, even though they've got some outstanding talent. Yeah, the one program that comes up over and over again is the dance program. Yeah, absolutely right. So they've got a hip hop dance team here at UNLV. Shout out to the dance team. Yeah, they're tearing it down. That are doing the darn thing. But the other programs, they're probably overachieving because I couldn't tell I can, but most people can't tell you the name of UNLV, head football coach. They can't tell you the name of UNLV is head basketball coach. I can they can't tell you the name of UNLV baseball coach or golf coach, right, right? So is UNLV doing the things that, especially with all the movement, right? There's been a lot of conference movement, a lot of teams, I've moved into the Big 10 and various other conferences, right? The one thing that big the Big 10 had is always a lot of resources, yeah, of course, some championships, not a ton. But man, do they have resources, yeah. And so they got some championships, some not a ton. I
Unknown Speaker 9:41
mean, you got Ohio State and football. Yes, Indiana has five championships in basketball. That's going back. But yes, Bobby Knight, Michigan has won before, correct? Michigan State, yeah, Michigan State has won, yes, both of those programs in basketball, Michigan just won the full. Ball championship. Okay, so Big 10 is probably out of all the conferences, I'd say they have the second or, yeah, you're right. You're right now that you've it's SEC ACC and Big 10, yes, yes, when it comes to trophies, but
Unknown Speaker 10:14
they But the larger point that I'm making is because you think of sec and you know, whether it's basketball or even football, the Big 10, you know, Midwest states, most of them at that time now. Now they're all over, you know, starting with Penn State, coming in years and years and years ago. But now what I think UCLA
Unknown Speaker 10:34
is in there, UCLA, USC, Oregon, yes, yeah, it is. It is insane.
Unknown Speaker 10:39
And a lot of that is because of this issue of, hey, that is a program that is a conference that pours a ton of resources into their schools. And I know that I believe the the Mountain West Conference headquarters is moving to Las Vegas, yeah, maybe because they want to prevent losing UNLV, losing UNLV. But it is an interesting question, what are they not doing in some of these collegiate or this college sports programs, you know, whether it's basketball or football, I know the golf team is pretty good, but again, they didn't come up in these rankings that I was
Unknown Speaker 11:20
looking, yeah, the golf team was, it's like a basketball seemed situation where they they got really, really good in like, the 90s. Same thing with the basketball, right, right? Golf team. There's a little bit of an anecdote. It was actually the second choice. It would have been the second choice of Tiger Woods if he didn't go to Stanford. He was between Stanford and UNL. Wow.
Unknown Speaker 11:42
That's how that would have certainly changed things. Yeah, that would have certainly changed things.
Unknown Speaker 11:46
But obviously, we all know he ended up at Stanford, greatest golfer of all time. You know, the rest is history, right? Yeah. He almost ended up at UNLV in the early 90s. I think 1993 was his freshman year in college, and then 9495 and then he won the Masters in 97 right right here as an as a pro. So
Unknown Speaker 12:07
you know, and I don't know who the golf coach is for UNLV, I will have that answer for the folks Next time we talk about the subject matter. I'll have it next week, or we'll put it up on the website. But, but the interesting thing is, do we have the personalities here that can draw in some of these four and five star players in these respective sports? And I don't know how many four and five star players they get in football, yeah, I don't know how many four and five star players they get in basketball. I don't know how many they're getting in women's basketball, which is not a ton, not a ton, right? And is that because the the recruiting teams aren't doing their job? Is that because the resources aren't there? I know a lot of successful colleges they do, you know combines for middle schoolers like they start these relationships really early, yeah. So by the time these kids hit high school, they have been to the camps of these coaches. They know these coaches on a first name basis, and if they end up becoming, you know, one of those elite high school players, at least, that college coach can get their foot in the door, yeah. So the question becomes, in these high profile sports, especially a basketball and a football, does UNLV need a high profile head coach? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 13:32
So I think the criteria for making yourself into a big program,
Unknown Speaker 13:41
or let me or a lot of wins, yeah, right, either high profile or you just have a history of wins, and that will lead to you having a bigger you're
Unknown Speaker 13:49
leading. To my point. So as a sports you know, as the host of a sports radio show and a sports analyst myself, I love listening to other people talk about sports. It's one of my favorite things to do so on Callen on Colin cowherds the herd. He spoke about a similar issue based off of how hard it was, how hard it was to break into becoming a Power School, sure football, and he said the only school in the last 50 years. To do so is Oregon, and the reason being, Nike Headquarters is in Oregon. So they got a lot of resources, resources from Nike, which is why they were able to break through from what I think, to become a pro, a perennial top school in a variety of sports, I think you need to meet one or multiple of three criterias, which is not easy to do, especially if you're doing it in multiples. So here are my criteria, yes, you need to have a rich history, correct? You need to have a big name, yep. Or you need to be a power five conference, and UNLV doesn't have any of. Those. And most schools you can think of now the power five conferences being the ACC, big 12, Big 10, sec and you know, Pac 12 was the other one, but now they're defunct. So it's really a power four. Now, sure, sure, most schools you can think of are going to have one of those three things, right? Colorado, they were in the Pac 12, but it's defunct now. They're in the big 12. That's a power four, sure. And they got deonse, they got a big name, sure, yeah, that's a huge name. You know, your national champions are generally going to be from one of those big conferences, UConn, who is not in one of those conferences. Rich, rich, rich history, and all sorts of and a lot of resources, yeah, men's basketball, women's basketball. I mean, UConn is there, in terms of their history, Notre Dame history, and some big names too. So I think that a program needs to have one of those three things, power conference, rich history, big name, right? You have to have one of those.
Unknown Speaker 16:01
And they had it with Jerry Tarkanian, but they haven't really had it since, exactly.
Unknown Speaker 16:05
And it can't just end that one, right? Because they weren't in a power conference, and they didn't have a rich history, correct? So once the one goes away, now they have zero. That was an aberration, right? And, you know, they win a couple of national, national championships with Jerry Tarquin, sure, but once that one thing that they had goes away, and you'd see they had it. They won two national aggression to the mean, you fall back, yeah, Jerry Tarkanian, and now they're back to, you know, being in Purgatory, just mediocrity, right? And most of their sports. And then, you know, no disrespect to UNLV, but I think that they have to make a move. And, you know, from my point of view, I think the most reasonable thing they can do is change conferences, get to a conference with big resources, they'll accept you and LV, you can play in a big 12, which is a conference that has lost a couple of teams, sure, last couple of years, you know, Texas and Oklahoma moving to the SEC there's spot, there's room for UNLV to go to the big 12 and thrive there play against a team like Kansas and Kansas State more often, that's going to gain them some traction. And then maybe, you know, they're in a bigger conference. Now, more resources, you can get a high profile recruit. And
Unknown Speaker 17:16
here's the thing you know, when we talk about resources, right? If you don't have that name, and again, just as you mentioned, there's no disrespect simply because that person doesn't have a high profile name, but you better have the resources, right? And UNLV is in a state and city that does have a lot of resources connected to it. Now I don't know how good a job they have done historically, going out and marshaling those resources. I do know that that worm is turning, that change is starting to happen. But, you know, I recently saw BYU, which does have a pretty decent history with respect to at least football, Brigham Young, and they are trying to recruit AJ davansa and his NHL package is estimated to be for his probably only year that he will play college basketball anywhere between 4.5 ladies and gentlemen, And 10 million yeah, that's ridiculous. So that, and that's a school with a lot of resources, right, right? And so if, if that is your mindset, that we are going to compete, no matter what, we are going to go out there and at least have a conversation with the top recruits, and if a person needs to have, especially in this day and age, right? This modern day and age where there's nio, if there needs to be a million or 2 million or $3 million conversation, you can't be up on your high horse thinking, Oh, well, I'm not going to have that. It harms the purity of the sport, or whatever the excuse may be. This is a new day and age, right, right? And those conversations need to happen, especially if you're going to bring in that level of talent, because those kids now expect it, right? And if you're you're coming to them telling them how much of an education you're going to give them, I imagine you're going to hear Miss me with that, right, especially those that are on a fast track to either the NFL, who tend to play a little bit longer than one year, but you know those players that are on the fast track to the NFL or the NBA, or what have you, the Major League Baseball you're going to have to back to the truck up if you're trying to bring in top tier talent, because talent also recruits talent. Yeah, yeah, right. You bring in a cooper flag, or you bring in an AJ, davansa, all of a sudden now,
Unknown Speaker 19:44
Cooper flag did go to Duke, right,
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right? He's got, he's got all three. He's got the Dave, he's got the conference, the resources, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 19:54
right. Duke is Duke basketball, right? But you know, AJ going to BYU? So. They do have history and a relatively strong history. They have a lot of ACE Bailey, right? Like,
Unknown Speaker 20:05
you know, Rutgers is a decent school, but they don't have championship history. Yeah, right. So I would imagine they 10 resources. Yes, they have resources. And I would imagine there was probably, and I think they picked up a couple of players, Dylan Harper, yes, these are five star players. These
Unknown Speaker 20:23
are two for my money. These are two of the top three right freshmen in the country. You know, Ace Bailey is injured right now. He's gonna make his debut. Dylan Harper is averaging 22 games.
Unknown Speaker 20:36
And my question is and not that they did anything wrong, ladies and gentlemen, what did Rutgers do to get that level of talent in the door? Because when you think about top tier basketball programs, you can name 20, and Rutgers is not going to come up. Yeah. So again, that doesn't mean they did anything wrong. I'm actually complimenting i I'm acknowledging that, hey, this is a new day and age, and they are getting with the program, because they've got two of the very best in the country.
Unknown Speaker 21:08
Yeah, that's to me. I had no I didn't think either one of them would even consider Rutgers, right, right? And they got a four star, Chris newly who I know he's coming to Rutgers next year. Wow. Play to Bishop Mormon. Yeah, yeah. So you know Rutgers is doing something right, and I have no clue what it is, but I would like to know, because there, you know, you go back three years, there's no way that anyone is going to say, oh yeah. Two of the best three players in the country are going to,
Unknown Speaker 21:39
I'm going to go Rutgers right? Again. No disrespect to Rutgers, we are actually complimenting the fact that someone over there gets it. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 21:47
and, you know, I think I can't even explain it. I really can't. I mean Ron Harper, you know, Dylan Harper's father, he went to Miami of Ohio, right, right? So, regardless of what happened, Dylan Harper wasn't going there, correct? Five Star recruit, so he wasn't going there. So I'm thinking he's going to end up maybe Ohio State, if he wants to go right where his dad was. He could go. Dad was in Cleveland. Yeah. He could go to Michigan. Illinois. Played in Chicago. Bulls, right? Yeah. You know, his dad played for the Lakers, won a couple championships. There you could or,
Unknown Speaker 22:26
ladies and gentlemen, anywhere else he wanted to go to school, right? They would have opened the doors for Dylan Harper, yeah, of course. Kidney is unbelievable at
Unknown Speaker 22:33
every offer in the country. Yes, of course, I just didn't expect Rutgers. But the thing is, Rutgers is Big 10, yes. So, like I said, that goes back to my three criterias, power conference, right? History, right? Or a big name. And Rutgers hasn't exactly had as many big names, and they do have resources. And, yeah, they do have power conference that that comes with, you know, resources, your power conference. That's what I'm saying. Um, but yeah, Rutgers is in a power conference, and I said you have to meet at least one, so you can meet one and still be adequate.
Unknown Speaker 23:08
But when I say resources, I'm not just talking about the conference, right? I am talking, No, I'm talking about that alumni network, right? Like, of course, Rutgers, other than Princeton, Rutgers, is the end all be all in New Jersey, right? So, so if, if you're not there at Princeton, which is a great school, but you're probably, if you're a 5.5 level four or five recruit, you're probably not going there to play basketball, but Rutgers is that other Power School in New Jersey, one is academics, one is athletics. And that that reputation that they garnered, actually, for them, started in women's basketball way back when, when they brought on C vivid and stringer from the University of Iowa, of all places, to coach their women's basketball team. So this is a school that I know has a big, strong, powerful alumni network, and they have obviously put it to good use. Yeah, because, because, like you said, they did not have they had the conference. But Rutgers was not a school where four, level four and level five players were thinking, Okay, well, I've got Duke, UConn, Michigan, Kentucky, North Carolina, and let me see maybe Rutgers. Yeah, right, that didn't happen. I think for
Unknown Speaker 24:25
for at least Dylan Harper, he probably wanted to stay relatively close to home, sure he came up in New Jersey, went to high school in New Jersey. You know, he was a New Jersey boy. So Rutgers, being in New Jersey, that's the only explanation I can think of for him, right? Ace Bailey, I have no clue. He went to high school in Georgia, so
Unknown Speaker 24:45
and both of them are good enough. No matter where they play, they're still making the jump after year one.
Unknown Speaker 24:52
I mean, you know, Ace Bailey and or Dylan Harper, they go to school with Cooper flag. They don't have to defer to him. Correct? These dudes. Correct.
Unknown Speaker 24:59
These guys are the real deal. These are hyper talented individuals, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 25:03
but I think for for UNLV, they don't meet any of the three criterias that we've talked about in, you know, for being resources, right? So I think the biggest thing that they can do, and, you know, to circle all the way back to my to my listener, who answer? Who asked this question? I think the most important thing that they can do right now is get into a power conference with history and with resources, because if they do that, then you're going to start competing with some of the more high profile schools. And the more you compete with the high profile schools, the better you're going to get, and the better you get, the more high profile recruits you can get. So I think the
Unknown Speaker 25:42
I agree, I think I come up, come at it from a little different angle, though. I think the resources have to come into either, either the resources, which, again, they are in a city filled with them. I just don't know if they've got that network. I don't know if they took this and I L thing seriously. I do know they did not, right?
Unknown Speaker 26:00
But if they get into a big conference, they'll essentially be forced to take it seriously,
Unknown Speaker 26:05
correct, correct, which, so it's either the resources or the name, right? The name can change everything, almost in a season, right? It'll take a little bit of time, but in a season, you know, I don't expect Deion Sanders is kind of going to come to UNLV football, but if he
Unknown Speaker 26:21
did, yeah, that would change. Everything would change quickly,
Unknown Speaker 26:23
right? And there are other names out there like that, again, not trying to push the coach out of the door, right? But there are other names out there where maybe some of those top four and five recruits, or four and five level recruits, might say, Hey, I'm going to take this call, I'm going to take this visit. And a lot of times, you know, showing up is, is 80% of, you know, the win, right? Yeah, of course, you're 80% of the way there. And getting that recruit, if you can just get them to show up. But if you don't have the program, you don't have the history, and you don't have a coach of any notoriety, it may be hard just to get them to show up or even pick up the phone. Yeah, that's fair.
Unknown Speaker 27:04
So, you know, I think you you make a good point with the name, but I do think it would be more difficult to get someone with a big name than it would be to just go to a bigger conference. Right?
Unknown Speaker 27:18
Colorado did it right. They
Unknown Speaker 27:21
were in the Pac 12 already, though, and when they were in the Pac 12, they still PAC 12, still had Oregon and USC and UCLA and Stanford, Colorado, like this was still, but still when it was Power Five,
Unknown Speaker 27:34
Colorado surprised people in getting and recruiting Deion Sanders, even though so Dion was at an HBCU, yeah, Jackson, Jackson State, right? And then Colorado gets him. Of all the schools in the country, Colorado did something. Hey, let's take a swing at this. They did and I don't see any difference between a Colorado and a UNLV. If they can do it. Conference, we can do it. Conference,
Unknown Speaker 28:03
that's the difference. That was the Colorado had more resources flowing into that program than UNLV and now Colorado, you know, just from Deion Sanders. I read this today, Colorado is generating $115 million a year from Deion Sanders, yeah, just Deion Sanders. That's not accounting for chador and for Travis and for their eight and two football team, right, right, right. Just Deion Sanders. 100 and $15 million a year.
Unknown Speaker 28:30
Yeah, that is, I know there's a lot of people here that would just love to see UNLV, across a number of sports, have that kind of success, because they've got some really talented individuals in their women's basketball team, their men's basketball team, their men's basketball team, their men's football team. Shout out to Hodge Malik Williams. I mean, just hyper talented individuals that I think just need either more resources coming into this program, or, like you said, maybe a different conference, so that they can get the respect that they are due. Because there's some really talented individuals here.
Unknown Speaker 29:02
And for the record, I absolutely believe that UNLV can do this. I really do believe in the future UNLV can build themselves into one of those powerhouse sports schools that we see. There
Unknown Speaker 29:12
has to be somebody thinking about it. There's pro teams and everything else coming in here to Las Vegas. Absolutely have to be thinking about
Unknown Speaker 29:18
it. All right. This has been another great episode of sports prep live. Thank you everybody for tuning in this Wednesday. We'll see you all next week. I'm Graydon Prescott. Have a great week. Everybody. Peace out. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of sports prep live. I'm Graydon Prescott, and don't forget to catch all of our episodes on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcast, and be sure to follow us on Instagram or Twitter at sports prep live. Thank you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai